creationtalk

Information about creationtalk

Published on March 11, 2008

Author: Belly

Source: authorstream.com

Content

Origins: The Debate Continues:  Origins: The Debate Continues “How are the different models of origins holding up with respect to new scientific data?” Kevin Miller - Computer Science B.A., M.S. Presentation Topics :  Presentation Topics Overview of Different Models of Origins Age of Earth, Solar System and Universe Fossil Record Biology & Micro-Biology Cosmology Scientific Difficulties w/ Genesis Conclusion Different Models Of Origins:  Different Models Of Origins Darwinian Evolution - naturalistic origin to life; gradual changes from one species to another through mechanism of natural selection a.k.a “survival of the fittest” and genetic mutations (provides new material) (Charles Darwin) Punctuated Equilibrium - naturalistic rapid changes in small populations that eventually infiltrate larger populations (Steven Gould - Harvard) Theistic Evolution - God used Darwinian Evolution as mechanism to create life - Genesis Creation is an allegory Biblical Young Earth Creationism - God created everything in thousands of years (<10k) Different Models Of Origins (continued):  Different Models Of Origins (continued) Biblical Old Earth Creationism - God progressively created everything in Billions of Years Alien Seed Theory - Life was brought here from outer space Directed Evolution - Recipe for life is built-in; nature is self-ordering. God could or could not be involved in natural laws. Ages and Time:  Ages and Time Commonly sought by both religionists and scientists for last two thousand years Used both naturalistic clocks and religious texts Naturalistic clocks: cooling of earth, cooling of sun, decline of sea-level, Earth-Moon tidal retardation, Sulfate and Sodium accumulation in Ocean, Erosion Rates Early Estimates of Age of Earth:  Early Estimates of Age of Earth Dating Methods Commonly Used Today- Radiometric Dating:  Dating Methods Commonly Used Today- Radiometric Dating Radiometric Dating- Unstable Isotopes Decay Into Stable Daughter Isotopes They seem to decay at very stable rates (only slight variation in lab experiments) For example: K40->Ar40 Half Life:1,250 Mya, U238->Pb206 Half Life: 4.5 Mya By comparing ratio of Parent-To-Daughter atoms one can determine date of rock Yields Rates of 4.5 Byrs For Earth & Moon Yields Rates of Between 9 Byrs and 16 Byrs for Solar System (long lived isotopes) More Dating Methods Used Today - AstroPhysical Observation and Models:  More Dating Methods Used Today - AstroPhysical Observation and Models Assume Big Bang Theory - Check velocities at which distant galaxies recede from Milky Way Most astronomical evidence supports Big Bang Yields results from 7 to 20 Byrs depending on whether or not universe is unbounded, expanding forever, OR bounded, eventually to collapse Globular clusters uses theoretical isochrons (radiometric dating) and Stellar luminosity/temperature to determine age- 14-18 Byrs Radioactive Decay:  Radioactive Decay Atoms are made up of neutrons, protons, and electrons The nucleus of an atom consists of neutrons and protons. The number of protons in a particular nucleus is called the atomic number. The sum of the neutrons and protons is the mass number. Atoms that have identical atomic numbers but different mass numbers are called isotopes. Over time some isotopes are unstable and their nucleus undergoes decomposition to form a different nucleus. The decomposition rate is called the half-life. Age Implications for Different Models of Origin:  Age Implications for Different Models of Origin Darwinian Evolution - Both radiometric and astrophysical methods are friends. Punctuated Equilibrium - Same as above. Theistic Evolution - Same as above. Biblical Young Earth Creationism - Inconsistencies Biblical Old Earth Creationism - Friends of Common Methods Alien Seed Theory - Friends of Common Methods Directed Evolution -No real implications here. Young Earth Creationism and Accepted Dates for Universe:  Young Earth Creationism and Accepted Dates for Universe Most scientists are wrong. Radioactive Decay Rates are not constant Radioactive Decay contains assumptions about the amount of daughter element (Dr. Baumgardner - Grand Canyon Cardenses basalt - 1.7 b Samarium, 1.1 b Rubidium, 0.7 b Potassium & Hawaiiain Lava Flows 190 yrs old date 3 b) Speed of Light has changed (Dr. Lambert Dolphin) Our Experience of Time From Earth as described in Genesis is relative to rest of universe (Dr. Russell Humphreys) God could have created everything looking “old” - He’s God After All Fossil Record:  Fossil Record Fossils are formed by rapid burial. Found in sedimentary rocks. Are remains, impression, or trace of an animal or plant of a former geological age. Oldest Fossils are bacteria and algae that date to 3.5-3.8 Billion Years Old (primarily by radioactive dating of nearby igneous rocks - rocks formed by heat - volcanic activity) Fossil record is abrupt in nature. From gradualistic evolutionary view there are many missing transitional forms. “Cambrian Explosion” - 550 Millions years ago. 300 different body plans appear without much trace of ancestors in relatively short period of time (~25 mys). Maybe as short as 5 mys (Science 261:1274-1275) More on Fossil Record :  More on Fossil Record Stasis is the norm. March 10, 1995 Science article showed that in many lineages the pattern was millions of years of stasis interrupted by periods of no more than 100,000 years of rapid and sudden change. Paucity of good examples of gradual evolution. Feathers fossilize; scales fossilize - no 1/2 scales 1/2 feathers. Fossils are fully formed and are complex in nature. Ie. Trilobyte’s Eyes - Compund Lenses that use Fermat’s Principle & Abbe’s Sine Law Even More on Fossil Record - Transitions:  Even More on Fossil Record - Transitions Insects - Appear fully formed; Dragonflies are dragonflies; roaches are roaches. Invertebrates to Vertebrates - Missing Fish to Amphibian - Missing; Fish have small pelvic bones that are embedded in muscle and not connected to the backbone unlike tetrapod amphibians which have large pelvises that are firmly connected to the vertebral column. Without this anatomy, the amphibian could not walk. Amphibian to Reptile - Ambiguous since skeletons are closely related. Mammals & Marine Mammals- Missing without transitions Flowering Plants - Sudden appearance of 43 families in Cretaceous Exceedingly More on Fossils - Transitions:  Exceedingly More on Fossils - Transitions Archaeopteryx - still commonly claimed as missing link between birds and reptiles. Contains toothed jaws, clawed fingers, boney tail. And recently contains bony sternum (1993) needed for flight, fully formed feathers. Feathers - “the central shaft of a feather has a series of barbs projecting from each side at right angles. Rows of smaller barbules in turn protrude from both sides of the barbs. Tiny hooks, called barbicels, project downward from one side of the barbules and interlock with ridges on the opposite side of adjacent barbules…[all this forms a feather] that is impervious to air penetration. Other Mosaics Exist Today - example - Platypus Still More On Fossils:  Still More On Fossils Caudipteryx and Protoarcheopteryx- June 1998 claimed to have evolved from small Coelurosaurian dinosaurs. 120-145 Million Years Old. Contain fully formed feathers said to perform minor function such as insulation or mate attracting however could be used to provide stabilization like ostrich or roadrunner. However skeleton evidence shows that they were incapable of flight Younger than Archaeopteryx “Science 280, 1998” by 5-30 Mya Horse Series - Another Popular Transitional Example - 3 toes to 1 in North America, 1 to 3 in South America. Smallest one had fox like teeth Almost the Last Note On Fossils:  Almost the Last Note On Fossils Coelacanth - intriguing living example of stasis Coal (fossilized plant matter) - found in seams rather than spread out. Could suggest that huge mass of water swept trees together and deposited them in thick layers. Human-like Fossils - Only found recently in fossil record according to radiometric dates (on order of 5 million years) Human-like Fossils - Only a few thousand in existence (~6k) and most in bad shape (teeth, skulls) Currently Evolutionary Path - Homo-Sapiens, Archaic Homo-sapiens, Homo-erectus, Homo-habilus, Australopithecus afarensis(Lucy) The Last One-Human Fossils:  The Last One-Human Fossils Fossils of supposed ancestors found in same geologic time periods I.e. Laetoli Footprints - some believe they were made by modern humans Dr.Russell Tuttle said “In Sum, the 3.5 million year old footprint trails at Laetoli Site G resemble those of habitually unshod modern humans. None of their features suggest that the Laetoli hominids were less capable bipeds than we are.” (Same time period as “Lucy”) Homo Erectus Fossils Found ~10k y.a “Kow Swamp People”, Australia(40 fossils, used tools and fire) Homo Sapiens Fossil Found - Kanapoi humerus 5m.y.a (Same time period as “Lucy”) Home Erectus Fossils Found Contemporary with “Lucy” KNM-ER 3228, SKX-5020 Fossil Record Implications for Different Models of Origins:  Fossil Record Implications for Different Models of Origins Darwinian Evolution - Inconsistencies - no slow gradual change found. Punctuated Equilibrium - Friend of Fossil Record. Theistic Evolution - Inconsistencies - no slow gradual change found. Biblical Young Earth Creationism - Friend of Fossil Record with negation of accepted geologic time scale except for scarcity of human fossils. Biblical Old Earth Creationism - Friends of Fossil Record. Infinite Life - Inconsistencies - flux in earth biology over time Alien Seed Theory - No real implications here. Directed Evolution -Acquaintance of Fossil Record. Biology & Microbiology Issues:  Biology & Microbiology Issues Natural Selection - Survival of the Fittest - Tautology - Observed Best Known Example: Peppered Moth in industrial England. Start with mostly light colored moths, a few dark. Light moths hidden on light trees, dark eaten. Industrial pollution turns trees dark. Now dark moths hidden, light eaten. Mutations occur but usually have negative effects. Seem to have limits for change too. Best Known Pseudo-Positive Mutation Example For Humans: Sickle-cell anemia (prevents malaria) Few examples of speciation: Horse+Donkey->Mule Is the Soup On? Origin of Life Experiments:  Is the Soup On? Origin of Life Experiments DNA Discovery by Watson & Crick sheds light on blueprints for life (1950s) Information Flow From DNA to RNA to proteins Origin of Life Experiments - Stanley Miller Created amino acids in lab. Amino acids form naturally in natural. They are building blocks of proteins. However in nature found ~50% Left-handed ~50 Right-handed. Unlike in nature where left-handedness rules DNA Not likely to change much due to chemical stability RNA Much more unstable Current theory by evolutionists is that RNA came first and evolved into DNA No Soup Yet?:  No Soup Yet? Many problems with RNA first theory. Nucleotides essential for RNA and DNA require very different environmental conditions. Cytosine/Uracil need near boiling water temperatures and Adenine and Guanine require near freezing water temperatures. Nature 375 (1995) Homochirality - Amino Acids must be all LH. Nucleotides must be all RH. Science 267 (1994); Nature 374 (1995) Earth’s Surface Temp: At time of life’s origin estimated at 176-194F Science 279 (1998) RNA nucleotides decouple in < 20 years. Life Here From OuterSpace - life transported from outer space would probably arrive dead. Stellar radiation is destructive. Still No Soup?:  Still No Soup? Reducing Atmosphere Issue: Atmosphere with oxygen->no amino acids, creates barriers to life AND Atmosphere without oxygen->no protective ozone. Old rocks show oxygen existed as far as can be determined (limestone and ferrous iron in rocks) Recent interview with Stanley Miller “Although there is dispute over the composition of the primitive atmosphere we’ve shown that either you have a reducing atmosphere or you are not going to have the organic compounds required for life” Submarine Vents - decompose organic compounds presently entire ocean goes through vents in 10 mya (S.Miller) DNA Similarities to Other Organisms, and Etc.:  DNA Similarities to Other Organisms, and Etc. 97% Similar to Chimpanzees (Proof of Evolution OR common design?) Full DNA sequences available ~2005 Molecular Clock- does not correlate for many species. Adam & Eve Theories - molecular clock date to 100k to 200k old - Homo Erectus (late as 300k - 100k for evolution) Lack of universal genetic code - “Universal” codons found to code for different proteins for many species (Microbiological Reviews (56) 1992) Live 25 mya bacteria Bacillus found in stomach of extinct bee encased in Amber (like Jurassic Park). They differ genetically by 6.7%. (Generation time of minutes to hours, 200 billion generations) Science 268 1995 Microbiological Complexity & Self-Organizing Systems:  Microbiological Complexity & Self-Organizing Systems Von Neumann - self-replication - key identifier of life Extreme complexity is the norm. Ex. Bacterial Flagellum, Bloodclotting System “Irreducible Complexity” - Behe Self-Organization to the rescue. Ie. Snowflake. Artificial Life has had success in simulations of self-organizing systems. Self-Organization Systems - still nascent. Molecular Clock:  Molecular Clock The theory is that genetic mutations (DNA copying error) occur at regular intervals. Assuming certain mutation rates you can determine when two species last had a common ancestor. The more similar the DNA the more closely related the two species are. Vestigial Organs & Junk “DNA”:  Vestigial Organs & Junk “DNA” Brought up as examples for evolution Basis is that organ no longer has use. Previous Examples: Tonsils, Appendix, Thymus Gland, Pineal Gland. Junk “DNA” is idea that non-coding DNA has no use. Recent evidence however shows that there may be another language in the non-coding DNA sequences “Science 2/4/94 and 11/25/94” Biological Implications For Different Models of Origins:  Biological Implications For Different Models of Origins Darwinian Evolution - Inconsistencies with microbiology & origin of life. Punctuated Equilibrium - Inconsistencies with origin of life. Unclear what microbiology findings indicate. Theistic Evolution - Depends upon exact definition; evidence could be considerate good or bad for this theory. Biblical Young Earth Creationism - Friends of evidence. Biblical Old Earth Creationism - Friends of evidence. Alien Seed Theory - Unclear. Assumes life could not have evolved here so implicitly support theory. Unfortunately life elsewhere will probably be similar to life here. (Denton) Directed Evolution - Assumes gradual evolution is improbable so improbability implicitly supports this theory. Cosmological Findings:  Cosmological Findings Extremely significant discoveries starting with Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity. Solution to relativity equations led to result that everything in universe is simultaneously expanding and decelerating. Explosion is only physical phenomenon that expands and decelerates. All matter, energy, and space-time dimensions had a beginning in finite time. Scientific evidence proved accuracy of relativity to 1 part in 1021 Einstein knew implications and gave acceptance for “the necessity for a beginning” and “the presence of a superior reasoning power” Alternatives and Variations:  Alternatives and Variations Oscillating Universe - First proposed by early Hindu teachers and Roman atheistic philosophers Nature 259 (1976) - expanding and contracts - infinitely (our existence is the one “lucky” universe with atoms in right place Oscillating Universe Problems -1) Observed Density of Universe falls short of what is needed for collapse 2) No physical mechanism can bring about a reversal of cosmic contraction 3) Any hypothesized compression becomes unstable near the end of the collapse. “Big Crunch” Steady State -Proposed by British astrophysicists in 1948. Universe had a beginning but expanding indefinitely. New matter is continually created. More Alternatives to Big Bang:  More Alternatives to Big Bang Problems with Steady State: 1) Enormous entropy makes no sense 2) No physical mechanism 3) Observed microwave background radiation defies explanation Harte-Hawking Model: Big Bang but with Quantum Physics invoked prior to 10-43 second to eliminate the one singularity (requires use of imaginary time). Universe is like a wave function. However, still have singularity in physical dimension. Teleological Finds:  Teleological Finds Many widely accepted evidences for fine tuning of universe. Example #1: Electron:Proton Ratio: 1:1037 if larger: electromagnetism would have dominated gravity preventing galaxy, star and planet formation. If smaller: same Example #2: Expansion Rate of Universe: 1:1055 if larger no galaxy formation. If smaller universe would have collapsed prior to star formation. More examples: Mass of Neutron, Strong Nuclear Force Constant, Weak Nuclear Force Constant, Gravitational Force Constant, Electromagnetic Force Constant More “Design Intimating” Examples:  More “Design Intimating” Examples Ratio of electron to proton mass, entropy level of universe, mass density of universe, velocity of light, age of universe, initial uniformity of radiation, average distance between stars, decay rate of proton, 12C to 16O nuclear energy level ratio, Ground state energy level for 4He, Decay rate of 8Be, Mass excess of neutron over proton, Initial excess of nucleons over antinucleons, Polarity of the water molecule, Supernova eruptions, White dwarf binary stars, Ratio of mass of exotic matter to ordinary matter, Galaxy Size, Galaxy Type, Galaxy Location, Star Mass, Star Color, Star’s Distance from Galactic Plane, Tidal Force, Planetary crust thickness, ozone quantity, Volcanic Activity, Tectonic Activity This Big Universe- Just for us?:  This Big Universe- Just for us? Odds of all parameters lining up are ridiculously small even considering generous estimates and trillions of stars and planets. Weak Anthropic Principle - conscious beings can only exist in an environment with special characteristics Strong Anthropic Principle - nature must take on those characteristics to admit somewhere the existence of conscious beings Participatory Anthropic Principle - observers are necessary to bring the universe into existence and the universe is necessary to bring observers into existence Final Anthropic Principle - Life that exists in the universe will continue to evolve until it reaches the Omega Point. Man->God. God created the Universe for Man. Implications of Cosmological Findings:  Implications of Cosmological Findings Darwinian Evolution - No direct implications Punctuated Equilibrium - No direct implications Theistic Evolution - Friend of evidence. Biblical Young Earth Creationism - Friend of evidence. Biblical Old Earth Creationism - Friend of evidence. Alien Seed Theory - Unclear. Directed Evolution - Friend of evidence. Chances of universe forming planets and life randomly are slim. Scientific Difficulties with Genesis:  Scientific Difficulties with Genesis Positions: 1) Genesis is an allegorical story containing spiritual truths. 2) Genesis is true; our knowledge of science is limited 3) Genesis is true; science is true and they can be reconciled upon review 4) It’s a little bit of allegory and truth. Creation in Seven Days - “Yom” - only word for day and long epochs in Hebrew. Many other places in Bible refer to Yom as long period of time. Biblical Hebrew 3k words - Disputed by many Young Earth Creationists. Contradictions with order of creation between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2- Genesis 1 is How, What, When while Genesis 2 is Why. More Scientific Difficulties:  More Scientific Difficulties Seeming Contradiction with known science: Universe and Earth created before Light? 1) In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth. (Heavens contains Universe including sun, stars) 2) Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. (note context shift) 3) And God said ,”Let there be light”, and there was light. Scientific evidence shows that when planets first form they are surrounded by extensive shell of gas and debris. Light was created in v.1) but became visible in v.3) from context of earth’s surface. Many other such ways to resolve apparent contradictions. Continuing Difficulties:  Continuing Difficulties Creation of Life - My bible says in Genesis 1:11 “Let the land produce vegetation : seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds” In English words such as “seed”, “trees”, and “fruit” have specific meaning than Hebrew words “zera”, “es” and “peri” which mean the “embryos of any plant species”, “any large plant containing woody fiber”, “the food and/or embryos produced by any living thing”. “Zera” and “peri” could refer to any plant species that has ever lived. Genesis Problems Continued - The Flood:  Genesis Problems Continued - The Flood Worldwide or Local? Worldwide: created fossil record, coal beds, and geological structures such as Grand Canyon Local: From perspective of people it was ‘global’. Meant to destroy people and people only lived around Mesopotamia. All the land dwelling animals? Or just the ones necessary for survival and sacrifice? Flood Myths: Over 300 myth stories. Many had people in a boat being saved from flood, a bird flying from boat to check for land and the boat landing in Mountain Range. Mount Ararat - Ark landed on Range of Mountains; not Mountain in particular. Olive Tree does not grow in high elevations (Dove) Genesis Problems - Long Life Spans & Genealogies:  Genesis Problems - Long Life Spans & Genealogies People lived to be hundred of years old then God shorted life spans to 120 years old. Apoptosis - biochemical “programmed” cell death Vela Supernova (20-30k BC) - could be cause of harmful rays that increase mutations that cause things like cancer. People were vegetarians. Genealogies dating to creation of man to 4004BC. Hard to pin down because flexible use of Hebrew words ‘ab and ‘ben. ‘Ab can refer to grandfather, great-grandfather, great-great grandfather and so on. Likewise ‘ben can refer to grandson, great-grandson, etc. (Accounts for discrepancies between parellel genelogies in Mark and Luke) More on General Reliability of the Bible:  More on General Reliability of the Bible Strong Manuscript evidence. More ancient manuscripts than any other historical book. New Testament Confirmed by secular historians Josephus (before 100 AD), Roman Tacitus (120 AD), Roman Governer Pliny (110 AD) Archaeological evidence. Countless finds of Old Testament Cities Prophecy - Several hundred fulfilled prophesies including the time of Christ’s ministry, his birthplace, and method of death. Destruction of Babylon by Cyrus, Progression of Kingdoms from Babylon through Medo-Persian Empire, the Greek Empire and the Roman Empire, suffering of Jews under Antiochus IV Epiphanes, Freedom for Jews under Judas Maccabeus and Israel’s rebirth as a nation in 1948. Conclusion: Matters of the Heart:  Conclusion: Matters of the Heart Einstein said “Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind.” Romans 1:20 “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature- have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.”(NIV) Psalm 139:13-16 “For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.” (NIV) John 3:16 “ For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”(NIV)

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